Posted by Richard Smit on June 12, 2006 at 10:10:51:
In Reply to: Christians and Marriage posted by cpnel on June 08, 2006 at 09:04:58:
Sorry, but there is “no way” I could ever get myself to believe what you have said and written. And, I’ve read everything you have posted to this forum “very carefully”.
You seemed to have managed to change history!
But perhaps, only for those who have not made the effort to study history. The part in which you describe the Emperor Constantine creating Christianity is not the story line, I have in the many history books I’ve read.
Just one reference I have in my own “small” personal library, which contradicts what you have written, puts everything you have written, in serious doubt.
For me, just one error or “unqualified” statement, then what you write is history (out of my mind!).
For those who believe, without question and without thorough investigation, that which others write (whoever and how many these others may be), I only have the following to say, and I’ll try and be “respectable” and “gentle” about it:
Catch a “wake up call” - You have been pre-warned!
And this, not only from me.
Nothing that you write Chris, is really a serious challenge to my faith and beliefs.
Extremely subtle, insulting beyond belief, scholastic in terms of disinformation, clever indoctrination, bombastic, mind boggling, repetitive, uncertain, self contradictory and anti Christian, anti religion, anti Jesus propaganda perhaps, but nevertheless, not correctly interpreted, nor convincing, nor comprehensively balanced in terms of many different sources of historical information available, nor divinely inspired, in my opinion.
Nor can I “tell” or “discern” Truth from untruth in your style of writing.
Anybody should easily see this.
Surely, you can’t get more than Zero for this assignment you have written for the University you have mentioned in your post? Unless (qualification), perhaps the assignment is being done for other reasons and purposes, we don’t know about.
I always stuck to the point when I did my University assignments. But this was a long time ago, when I was younger (but not wiser), so perhaps things have changed!
It appears to me, that your main intention is to prove everyone else wrong and corrupt, especially Christians, but you yourself right. But you are “not sure” that you are right. This is substantiated by the fact that you keep requesting in your writings, that if you are wrong, that others must please tell you where, and prove it to you.
When are you going to realize that no one, is under any obligation to prove anything to you? Why should they - especially taking into account, the way you accuse them and the manner in which you express your personal viewpoint.
“All” have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This includes me and you!
This in very simple terms, means that you and I, are sinners too.
Unless you disagree with that!
What you say and write about Christian sex and marriage, is not what I have been told in the many different denominational Christian Churches I have attended. In fact what you say is the direct opposite. And this I say with my own actual “living” proof and what I have “heard” with my own ears. In fact one Church member, I know of, was thrown out and banned because of the things he was doing. Perhaps the Churches I’ve been to, aren’t Christian. But I can tell you they are. Perhaps we are just too “forgiving”, of each other.
The judgements we make on others, individually and collectively, are the very judgements we will be judged on. But, not only on this.
Scripture specifically states that God has “spoken” through His Son, (Hebrews 1:1-2), in “New” Testament times.
For me, and for billions more (not only two billion, but every Christian who has lived on earth over the past two thousand years), the pinnacle of what God has done is found in the life of His Son. His birth, His miracles, His death and His resurrection are redemptive “history”.
For me, the message of God’s Son surpasses those of the Prophets and Apostles, and He even dared to place His message beyond what was written in the Scriptures, and therefore fulfilling them (Matt 5:17). For this (but not only this), He died the most horrible death.
There are so many possibilities (and errors) on a human level. We need to look at them all comprehensively and very carefully in detail, being impartial in the sense of disclosing and looking at “all” the information and facts, especially those facts where there are major differences and contradictions in opinions, viewpoints and beliefs.
FAITH, TRUST, HONESTY, INTEGRITY.
These are just some of the things we need to think about daily and try to
increase them, in ourselves, every day? Which means “doing” them.
Please notice, that the word “sincerity” was not used. I’m “well aware” that anyone can be truly sincere in their beliefs, but this by itself, does not automatically make them right.
It’s more (much more) complicated than that, I’m afraid.
SOME TRUE FACTS
“We” feed a number of families just down the road from us, everyday.
“We” visit prisoners in jails.
“We” visit the sick and very sick (terminally ill) in hospitals and in their homes.
“We” give our own time to help those in need of emotional support.
“We” support the aged and those who cannot support themselves.
“We” visit those who are alone and need companionship.
“We” feed the poor and destitute on the street corners.
“We” knit, sew, mend and collect unused clothing to give to those in need.
“We” hold second hand book and other commodity sales to collect money for the poor.
“We” hold Fetes to collect money for those in need.
And a few more things “We” do for others.
And “We” don’t get paid one penny to do these things. Actually it costs “we” both in money and in time.
Who are these “We”
These are those who I call, my brothers and sisters, Christians and non Christians.
I’ve “seen” them doing these wonderful things with my “own” eyes. As a matter of fact I’ve been with them myself, on one occasion, to a “really scary” place they visit. A place that put ones well being (life) at risk. I didn’t go back. You “see” their courage and their Faith, and their beliefs, are stronger and greater than mine.
And “I know” (different from “I believe”) there are thousands, if not perhaps millions more, worldwide who do exactly the same. Even of other faiths to “the One” I believe in.
FORBIDDEN BIBLES
One more example for you to consider – Who took the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, (hopefully the more correct, but not perfect and not original version) into lands where it was forbidden to do so, at risk to their own life. Who read, and why did they read these Bibles (look at all possibilities), to the risk of their own lives?
These are the people, you call “deceived” and “corrupt” and worse.
Anyway let me end off by saying that I will be reviewing in as much detail as possible, time permitting, the website you mentioned, with what you call the “more correct” (but not perfect, not original) Bible translations.
I have more than “ten translations” in my own personal library. They all have the same basic “Gospel” message. And you know what, whether you like it or not – I believe them – with no doubt at all.
But first to “intensely and comprehensively” check and investigate the credentials (the perfect people who were or are involved with these translations) and their impartiality (a correct translation, and nothing else) of these more correct (but no perfection guarantee) Bible translations.
In plain, straight forward English. There is no way that I can learn a new language, nor do I have any intention whatsoever, to do so. If I can’t understand and make sense of the language, it’s out the back door, in double quick time.
In any case, I certainly do not believe that God’s Revelation and “absolute immense power” is limited in any way, by any language, by any human (including myself), nor by any corrupt (or less correct) publication of any Bible.
I believe, He goes way beyond this, BY FAR.
SOME SCRIPTURE TO STUDY
In my review, if and when I am comfortable with the credentials, I’ll start with
John 1:1…………..
“That which was from the beginning……
we have heard…….
we have seen with our eyes……
we have looked upon and touched with our hands”
Followed with
John 14:9
“He who has seen me has seen the Father” and
Matt 27:54
“Truly this was the Son of God”
PERSONAL INTEREST
I have a very personal and profound interest in these verses, and no-one “on earth” can “close that door” for me, “anymore”.
TO GOD BE THE GLORY,
with inexpressible love, admiration, untold appreciation, and
with specific personal reasons.
The true comprehensive “Revelation of God” comes from God only, the only “true and faithful” witness.
Only He can give us the Faith that “we all” desperately need.
And He can and does give it, as the Holy Scriptures, so often mentions and proves.
It can “NEVER” come from humans.
And you and I, my friend, are “exactly” that – human beings.
But still, each one of us, have to decide for ourselves.